Navigating Fetal Concerns and Does a Baby Feel Pain in Utero? 

Radio Host and Advertisement: Pro-Life Radio is a prerecorded program paid for by Pro-Life Radio. Preserving the sanctity of life in Florida, A loud voice for the unborn. This is Pro-Life Radio with your hosts, Vicky and Bruce Cherry, and welcome to another edition of Pro-Life Radio on a Sunday night. And I’m Bruce Cherry, my lovely wife, Vicky Cherry, across from me here at the studio.

Bruce Cherry: Hello. Coming to you from the John Barrows Memorial Studio. Of course, John being a very strong pro-life advocate and a sidewalk preacher, and just a, a great human being that we lost oh, too soon, just a couple of years ago. But we consider an honor to produce this show in that studio. And tonight we have some great guests for you.

Bruce Cherry: And, but before we jump into our guest, we start off always with Jeremiah one, five and prayer. Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you before you were born. I sanctified you. I ordained you a prophet to the nations. Dear Heavenly Father, we thank you for another opportunity to bring this show to the public, to share truth, to share knowledge, to help change hearts and change minds, and to educate.

Bruce Cherry: And God, we hope that every show is significant in protecting and unborn child, heavenly Father, thank you. Thank you for the, the blessing of financial support to keep this show on the air. Thank you for the blessing of a great staff to keep the show on the air. And a great team, our pro-life team, and thank you for blessing me with an incredible helpmate in Vicky.

Bruce Cherry: That we share a vision to protect the unborn God. Thank you. We ask for your blessing upon our guests tonight, Dr. Haywood Robinson and Dr. Robin Pierucci. God, we ask you to bless their ministries, to bless their practices and to bless their homes. And God, we pray for blessings upon all who hear this show that they have the scales removed from their eyes and that they can see truth and they know how precious life is at every facet and every stage.

Bruce Cherry: We ask this in Jesus’ name. Amen. Amen. Alright. Amen. Dr. Haywood Robinson, 40 Days for Life Director and also Director of Continuum of Love journey of a Lifetime, a great ministry. And Dr. Robin Pierucci. Dr. You’re with Navigating Fetal Concerns? Yes, sir. And the American College of Pediatricians. That’s me.

Bruce Cherry: Alright. Thank you both for being here. The, the question that we’re going to be jumping into, and we talked about this before, we, we got everything going, but people ask this question and for me it’s a, it’s a no brainer because I was blessed to become a father. I’ve seen my children in the womb. I know they feel, but people ask the question, does a fetus really feel pain?

Dr. Haywood Robinson: Of course they do. The nervous system starts developing in these babies very early. We’ve just become more aware that, babies have significant developments in their nervous systems, early, early into the second trimester, which is past that first. 13 weeks. Yes, we need to give them anesthesia if we have a premature baby.

Dr. Haywood Robinson: So not, not only do they feel pain, but they have sleep cycles. They have an awareness of their environment, and we have to tailor our care to accommodate that and treat them as human beings who have the same way we treat. Adults or older children and being aware that there’s certain realities about how a human body works.

Dr. Haywood Robinson: I think we haven’t gotten to the point where we’ve accepted these premature babies and of course, what we’ll be talking about later of babies with different types of diagnoses, that they are simply human beings created in God’s image with the same things that we. People that call ourselves normal hat.

Dr. Haywood Robinson: And just one brief case, brief correction. You had said I’m the director of Love. Yes. Love also, but I’m technically the director of Continuum of Care with a journey of a lifetime. Yes, I do give tender Loving Care, but technically it is the director of Care. Yeah. So these babies feel pain. We know.

Dr. Haywood Robinson: When you do a, a circumcision on a baby, you need to give anesthesia. We know that when we’re a baby is getting stuck on the heel with a needle, that, that it hurts. And we need to be aware that everything that we’re doing to these babies is being input into the nervous system.

Dr. Haywood Robinson: And indeed. And unfortunately, when, when these babies lives, or are taken away with seizure like an abortion. Yes. Tearing a baby apart can be a horrible, painful way for being to lose its life. But yes,

Bruce Cherry: now, now, Dr. Robinson Dr. Pierucci, I’m gonna get to you in just a second, but I, Vicky and I had the, the pleasure to see Dr.

Bruce Cherry: Robinson speak two years ago at a Pro-Life Action Ministries dinner. Now, Dr. You have in the past performed abortions, correct?

Dr. Haywood Robinson: Yes, sir.

Bruce Cherry: And did you experience the baby reacting to what you were doing?

Dr. Haywood Robinson: The abortions I was performing was first trimester. Now I’m not saying it’s okay to that abortions are going to safer, or of course they’re just as deadly for the baby.

Dr. Haywood Robinson: First trimester as is the second trimester. How, however, there may be far less development of the nervous system. I think the better way one might look at this, if we’re looking at damage to the nervous system would be, what damage does it do to the doctor’s nervous system? That they become so dehumanized and so depersonalized that they can invade a woman’s uterus and take that baby’s life for some money.

Dr. Haywood Robinson: Mm-hmm. So it’s a dehumanization process of the whole nervous system of the doctor, but also collectively, I believe that’s a nervous system. Of this ministry of medicine where we’ve become desensitized and humanized and have not recognized the humanity of the Preborn child, and particularly Preborn children.

Dr. Haywood Robinson: Mm-hmm. That may have issues that are different from us. We’ve got to stop. Daphne and I have decided we’re not going to use the term birth defect anymore. God does not make defects. God makes human beings in his image. They may be different. They may not live as long.

Dr. Haywood Robinson: However, they deserve the care and the dignity of human beings as being human beings, and they need and deserve our care. Amen. Amen.

Bruce Cherry: Now, Dr. Robin Pierucci. The American College of Pediatricians, you are a member there and you have a, a ministry navigating fetal concerns. Tell us about that.

Dr. Robin Pierucci: Yeah, so navigating fetal concerns dovetails with journey of a Lifetime and everything that Dr.Hayward was just saying. This is a ministry specifically devoted to walking with. Families who usually by surprise and rather tally, have been informed that their baby has a prenatal diagnosis, which very sadly there are obstetric societies that absolutely it has in their policy statements that when there is anything even suspected, is being wrong.

Dr. Robin Pierucci: Then the obstetrician must offer a pathway to death. Mm-hmm. So there is first the trauma of, what do you mean everything is not fine? Because informed consent for prenatal testing can be deeply problematic, and that’s a whole additional conversation. But then there’s the moral injury of in the midst of a crisis, parents are offered to be made complicit.

Dr. Robin Pierucci: In their baby’s own demise. And, and not only that, I mean, it’s being done at a time when they’re so vulnerable and actually made to feel guilty as if, well, if you don’t do this, you’re somehow prolonging the baby’s suffering. Mm-hmm. So it’s just there’s so many different layers of why this is so awful.

Dr. Robin Pierucci: But it also dovetail, dovetails with what, we wanted to talk about as far as, you know, the fetal pain issue. Mm-hmm. You know, first of all, aiming, you say A baby is suffering in utero is just a bizarre statement to me. The baby is safe. That is where, that is the perfect environment mm-hmm. For this little one to be.

Dr. Robin Pierucci: Now obviously, yes, there are times when there’s things called femin deficiency and issues where. We have the privilege now of knowing some interventions and how do we help, but it also then brings up the babies that I get to care for when they are born prematurely. They are every bit the formed perfect person that they are.

Dr. Robin Pierucci: If they delivered in a couple more weeks and by the way, they arrived with an attitude. They had a personality and if you poke them they will smack you or kick you or become rather distressed over that. And when they’re really, really premature, they can show us that in different physiologic ways, things with oxygen, desaturation, and heart rate changes.

Dr. Robin Pierucci: They do have changes in facial grimacing. And gripping of their hands and their little toes curl. There’s all kinds of signs and symptoms that happened, what we call an acute response to a painful stimulus. And this happens at the edge of viability, which today is 22 weeks with actual increasing cases of survival at 21 weeks.

Dr. Robin Pierucci: Mm-hmm. Literally halfway through a pregnancy. Amazing. It is astonishing. Yet this is what’s so troubling, is some of our colleagues in a completely overlapping population will have stated that these babies do not feel pain. Until they, they claim that it’s not there because the connections to the cerebral cortex, this one particular area of the brain mm-hmm.

Dr. Robin Pierucci: Are immature and you can’t have pain until those There are connections, those nerves are mature, not just there, but mature. And they say that doesn’t happen. Their latest research. And the multi in their publications say that doesn’t happen until 28 to 30 to, I think 32 weeks, which is insane.

Bruce Cherry: Which we now, we now know that that’s not the case.

Dr. Robin Pierucci: N you. Mm-hmm. Of course. It’s not all, and yet we’re going, there’s actuals. The good news is that there’s now. Direct observational studies and they’re increasing.

Bruce Cherry: Doctor, I’m gonna, doctor, I’m gonna have to stop you right there. We are up against a break, so hold that thought.

Bruce Cherry: We’ll be right back with more Pro-Life Radio. And tonight we’re talking about navigating fetal concerns. And does a baby feel pain in utero? And we know they do. We’ll be back with more Pro-Life Radio on a Sunday night on AM nine 50 FM 94.9 the answer.

Vicky Cherry: And welcome back to Pro-Life Radio on a Sunday evening.

Vicky Cherry: I’m Vicky Cherry, my husband’s sitting across from me, Bruce.

Bruce Cherry: Hello and welcome.

Vicky Cherry: And it is a lovely day in America, right? So we are on with two incredible guests and I’m, you guys are gonna be just bombarded with some great, great information tonight. So we have two doctors on with us, and we’re talking about fetal pain and just all kinds of.

Vicky Cherry: Very interesting subjects.

Bruce Cherry: Do babies feel pain in the womb? Yeah. And we know they do. Mm-hmm. But there are still those out there that want you to believe that they don’t.

Vicky Cherry: So we have two very, very informed doctors, very knowledgeable. And it’s gonna be hard for you guys, I think, to get all that you need from them.

Vicky Cherry: So we may have to have them back on, but, mm-hmm. I had a question I was asking during the break I had, was listening to an article that. Other day. And it was saying about how babies in the womb feel pain, actually even worse at times because they can’t localize that pain. They can’t, the brain is not developed all the way that they can say that, Hey, this is my hand that hurts, this is my foot that hurts.

Vicky Cherry: It’s like a pain everywhere. I don’t know if that’s true. So I was asking, doctor what were you gonna, what is the answer to that question?

Bruce Cherry: So Doc, Dr. Pierucci, you were trying to finish a thought when we went to break and you seem to be the expert on fetal pain. So. If you would, doctor.

Dr. Robin Pierucci: So combination. So to answer both of those.

Dr. Robin Pierucci: So finishing up from before the break, yet there’s increasing numbers of direct observational studies of babies in the womb. In fact, there is now a validated fetal pain scale of you can watch a baby pre-op for a fetal procedure for fetal surgery. When they get the in injection for anesthesia, because we do treat their pain, you can watch the baby’s face literally scrunch up and then basically scream.

Dr. Robin Pierucci: Mm-hmm. They’re not happy about getting their anesthetic injection. And then of course it’s better, you know, it is appropriate anesthesia for the actual surgery. So that is. Now in use and there’s, we’re hoping for even more direct observational studies and we can talk more about that. But it is absolutely fascinating, the immature neurologic system actually there.

Dr. Robin Pierucci: So there’s, there’s the impulse of the pain stimulus that comes. From the peripheral receptor out in your hands or feet or face or wherever it is. Mm-hmm. Comes in, goes up into the brain, but then coming back, there’s an inhibitory arm that helps us not have the pain be quite so severe. Mm-hmm. So your question, Vicky, about do baby, do premature babies feel more pain is Yes, because the inhibitory arm.

Dr. Robin Pierucci: Is not yet well developed. Hmm. So they can have pain that is more intense. It never modulates and what the receptor fields themselves are much broader and less. Specific. So the question about, they can’t specify exactly what hurts where it is, it, it’s because of that larger receptor field. So all just amazing areas of study within the pain research grouping.

Dr. Robin Pierucci: So lots and lots of activity going on. We don’t know all the answers, but I’m pretty comfortable saying. Yes, babies premature babies feel pain. Babies are capable of fetal pain when they are immature, and we know their outcomes are dramatically improved both surgically with their fetal surgery and if they’re born immature.

Dr. Robin Pierucci: When we treat their pain I think we would be actually held medically negligent. If we didn’t treat our baby’s pain today, we just know so much more. In fact, in hematology, the ongoing studies are about not just direct pain, but the entire environment. How do we make that more conducive to their, to the neurologic health and development, which, you know, here’s a surprise.

Dr. Robin Pierucci: Getting those premature babies into parents’ arms mm-hmm. Helps their long-term neurologic development.

Vicky Cherry: So the, so the trauma that these babies are feeling when they’re, like, say in an abortion and they’re being torn apart, is just horrific.

Dr. Robin Pierucci: Yeah. My knees get weak. I, I just, yeah. No, I can’t even wrap my brain around that.

Bruce Cherry: Now, you know, if I may, Dr. Dr. Robinson, Dr. Haywood, you. You had a moment that caused you to stop performing abortions, did you not?

Dr. Haywood Robinson: Absolutely. Would you thank Jesus for that?

Bruce Cherry: Would you be alright with sharing that with us?

Dr. Haywood Robinson: Sure. Well, I was, born and raised attending church, but I was not a believer, not a Christian.

Dr. Haywood Robinson: I wasn’t, you know, born again or saved. But when I went to a. A Christian music concert at the church where I still attend. During the intermission of that concert, there was what I would probably call an altar call where Leon Patillo, the artist who was performing that night, asked if those people wanted to be that wanted things to be 100% right with God to stand up.

Dr. Haywood Robinson: And before I could. Think about anything. I was standing up and because I didn’t know any of the basics of Christianity about salvation, resurrection and what a whole Christian walk meant. Initially I didn’t know what had happened. Now of course most of this testimony is, is. Written in the book that my late wife and I wrote, the Scalpel and the Soul, but we, I was involved with abortion, but I, I tell people long before I even know what knew what an abortion was, I was a sinner.

Dr. Haywood Robinson: However, because abortion was something that was a major sin, being an abortionist and also aborting my Christian Walk, my first child. And, and, another relative. The Lord saw an opportunity for me, not, not that I am a Paul or a Saul, become Paul, but in many ways we all are. And the Lord, called us into, in the pro-life ministry.

Dr. Haywood Robinson: My first pro-life ministry was with operation Rescue. And that was quite an experience dealing with police, getting arrested and all that rather, in some ways humiliating, but it was the reality. When you’re dealing with the civil rights of a particular group of human beings sometimes you have to put it on the line.

Dr. Haywood Robinson: You have to not worry so much about your reputation. And I think that’s where people like, you know, Dr. Pierucci, Dr. Francis, we have to recognize that’s where we are. Right now. People like these, these young doctors, younger doctors, I’m a little older. They are the Abraham Lincolns. Thank you for that.

Dr. Haywood Robinson: They’re the, well, no, you’re, no you guys, you are the Frederick Douglas’, the Abraham Lincolns, the Martin Luther Kings that are now standing up for people group who haven’t had the human rights recognized. Mm-hmm. And what we’re dealing with. Is not, and I know I’m getting a bit off the abortion issue in my personal thing, but yeah.

Dr. Haywood Robinson: The Lord has delivered me. But we are arising and a few people, it only takes a little bit of salt. Mm-hmm. And a little bit of yeast to change the dough. So they’re taking people like Dr. Robin and Dr. Dr. Francis. Who are changing the culture. So no longer are, should we be saying there’s, we’re just an alternative.

Dr. Haywood Robinson: Mm-hmm. No. We’re supposed to be the standard. We’re supposed to be the light of the world. We are the truth. Jesus gives the truth. The truth sets you free. Mm-hmm. So if we we’re gonna be mentioning a certain webinar later, people need to listen to this. What we can no longer essentially be a person in a white coat that does a prenatal diagnosis, passes a noose up into the woman’s womb, and offer a womb lynching while we put a white hood on her head and call us other doctor.

Dr. Haywood Robinson: That’s exactly what’s going on right now, and we tell the patients that your baby is a, a, a bad word that no longer. Deserves to live and to save your life. We’re gonna just pull on this noose and lynch your baby, and then everything’s gonna be okay. We’re rejecting that. So that’s why these, that’s why I call them Abraham Lincolns.

Dr. Haywood Robinson: That’s why I call them Frederick Douglas’, because they’re doing exactly. What those people did, and you’re gonna make a difference. We’re gonna become the standard. We’re going to have these babies recognized at a time. We’re at our, we’re at a technological peak. It would seem, conventional wisdom would mean we were offering all of this technology to as many people as possible.

Dr. Haywood Robinson: But what has actually happened, it’s been the opposite. We want to withhold. Technology, we have what’s in our hands, sometimes not overly complex technology, simply because these babies are different and it can’t keep going down like this. So the Lord is going to empower us to stand on behalf. These human beings and working with their families so they don’t feel like they have defect.

Dr. Haywood Robinson: Human beings treat ’em as human beings regardless of the length of days that they have, because a few hours or a few days is a full. Lifetime. That’s why the name of DA’s Ministry journey of a Lifetime. God determines the length of a lifetime, not man, the d certain babies. He can’t predict how they’re going to behave or live based on our labeled diagnosis or stereotype that we put on it and call that a diagnosis.

Dr. Haywood Robinson: We gotta stop that stinking thinking and wake up. Use these gifts, this take all these technologies we have for life are gifts from God. It’s supposed to used for everybody.

Bruce Cherry: Dr. Dr. Pierucci, you were gonna say something?

Dr. Robin Pierucci: Yes. It Dr. Hayward it’s so generous. And with his praise but accurate about these little ones.

Dr. Robin Pierucci: I, I think one way I use I’d like to describe it is our first diagnosis is it’s a baby. Amen. And my Amen. Favorite thing on the planet is to get to ask parents, tell me what your baby’s name is. Mm-hmm. Your baby is inherently valuable. Mm-hmm. And I don’t care what other diagnosis anyone else comes up with.

Dr. Robin Pierucci: Nothing else ever. Negates or diminishes diagnosis number one. This is your son. This is your daughter. Amen. And, and all the rest of it is okay now let’s see what else we get to find out. Okay. But it, you know, those diagnosis we practice medicine these days with such a lack of humility. Like we can tell, everything a hundred percent.

Dr. Robin Pierucci: We don’t there’s so much we don’t know from the diagnosis. Now, it is one thing to try to be prepared for. How do I help? This life get off to the best. Mm-hmm. Starts, we can And how do we, how do we live? Well, yeah. With what? We don’t have the ability to heal, doctor. I would, it’s not a moment for discarding.

Bruce Cherry: Doctor, I’m gonna have to cut you off again as we are up against another break. But coming back, I want you to finish that thought and tell us about the webinar, about navigating fetal concerns and, and I know that’s something big that you and Dr. Haywood both are involved in. So we’re gonna go to break, we’ll be right back with more Pro-Life Radio on a Sunday night on AM nine 50 FM 94.9.

Bruce Cherry: The answer. Streaming on the answerorlando.com,

Bruce Cherry: and we’re back on a Sunday night, Pro-Life Radio, two very esteemed guests with us tonight. And man, I, I’ve got chills from I know. Just woo. We have Dr. Haywood Robinson who is the with 40 Days for Life and the director of Continuum of Love Ministry. And we have Dr. Robin Pierucci, who is with the American College of Pediatricians, and also with navigating Fetal Concerns and doctors.

Bruce Cherry: You two were telling us about a webinar that that one of you participated in, but it’s, it’s very prominent and it’s still something that our listeners could go to and, and use as a resource, correct?

Dr. Haywood Robinson: That’s right, yes. I was not in the webinar, but I’ve had. An opportunity to listen to it. It was a webinar by the president or CEO of the American Association of Pro-Life, OB-GYNs, Dr.

Dr. Haywood Robinson: Francis, who’s another bombshell of a, of a life affirming doctor. And along with Dr. Pierucci, it’s about one hour. There’s a wonderful presentation that lasts about 30 minutes, and I tell you the PowerPoint slides, the clarity. The nuggets. I mean, she was just dropping nuggets after nugget that just kinda like coconuts dropping on your head, sitting under the tree.

Dr. Haywood Robinson: And she just, and she’s so, she’s just smiling there. Everything’s just so smooth. But, we just, we’re just, it’s just a blessing to do that. And just one more reminder, that’s a director of Continuum of Care. The journey of a Lifetime. Continuum of Care. Continuum of Care. Maybe, maybe you’re papa.

Dr. Haywood Robinson: Sign that one day I’ll be director of love somewhere. I’ll do that at home. Continuum of care. There we go. I know I keep saying love and I was like, Bruce, that’s not right. No, what it is kind of that my handwriting on my notes, I’m like, it looked like love, but it’s continuum of care and I don’t have my glasses on, so Yeah.

Dr. Haywood Robinson: Well, well my writings now so, so good. Anyway, but yes. We’re Dr. Pierucci is gonna be talking a little bit about that webinar, but I would just want to encourage those that are going to be listening to the rest of the show. You have to, it’s an absolutely must listen to of the webinar that you’ll be given the details and title of, but.

Dr. Haywood Robinson: Take it away. And here’s Dr. Robin.

Dr. Robin Pierucci: I’m a little overwhelmed. The, I grew up in a pro-abortion household. Mm-hmm. So it is at the service of these little ones that and our Lord, who I did not know as a child my goodness. That. They have, they’ve taught me. And the, the webinar the other night was just about really proclaiming the personhood of every single human being and this myth that somehow we can identify substantial imperfections.

Dr. Robin Pierucci: And from those imperfections. We have, it is appropriate to offer death, which is just weird because, you know, one of the stories I’ve got, you know, I love to get to tell, is I’m like, thank goodness my mother couldn’t tell from a fetal ultrasound. What a pain in the butt stubborn human being I am. And someone would’ve offered, I mean, in the audience, raise your hand if you’re the perfect one.

Dr. Robin Pierucci: ’cause we’re not perfect. So the fact that we think we can choose imperfections that are worthy of a life that’s not worth living is just craziness. It is, it really reveals a deep disability bias. You know, Dr. Jerome Lejeune, who was just this brilliant physician who uncovered. The third chromosome for Down syndrome.

Dr. Robin Pierucci: What was the cause of that? And he lived to be very saddened by this discovery to see that the babies were actually being intentionally terminated if this was found. In fact, Iceland, they brag about the fact that. They’d gotten rid of their down syndrome population. No new downs. Babies were born in, in the previous year.

Dr. Robin Pierucci: Mm-hmm. Because they intentionally abort them, which is heartbreaking. And he is the one who coined the phrase, this is genetic racism. Mm-hmm. And, which is just jaw dropping. This is, you know, many, many years before, you know today’s conversation, but he’s exactly right. We are using prenatal diagnoses.

Dr. Robin Pierucci: It has become one of the biggest barriers to postnatal life that exists, and we really need to rethink about prenatal testing. What is the reason we’re doing it? And we have to even admit we’re doing it because women are going in and sometimes it’s just a routine. They’re, you know, you get your prenatal test, okay.

Dr. Robin Pierucci: The doctor said to do this. And some of them are not getting any informed consent. Some of them, there’s some discussion, but they think they’re getting like a gender reveal. And what happens is I have moms that I get to care for through navigating fetal concerns that they’ve just, they’ve been traumatized.

Dr. Robin Pierucci: They can tell you their life was fine and then whack, they, everything froze and stopped. And you can’t even think straight because you just you’re looking at someone going, what is going on? I thought everything was fine, and now you’re telling me that my baby’s not fine.

Dr. Robin Pierucci: My baby is so imperfect and is suffering, and the best course of action is. I should kill my baby. And that was what I really had the privilege to discuss to uncover this is what’s going on all the time. Mm-hmm. And, and it’s these weird euphemisms of, well, we can give your baby a good death and.

Dr. Robin Pierucci: I began billions of years ago when I first started neonatology. I was one of the doctors who got to, my first papers were about bringing palliative care into the NICU which I really was out of a sense of, of humility and admitting, look, we can’t heal everything. But it never meant we have, we should abandon the care of our little ones and our families.

Dr. Robin Pierucci: Mm-hmm. We always have an obligation to do that. So for me, palliative care, and I know Daphne and Dr. Hayward, a Journey of a Lifetime, believe the same thing and practice that way. This is about how do we help someone live and live well with what we can’t heal. It was never about ignore until dead, which if you don’t have a feeding plan for a newborn baby, I’m pretty sure that if you starve all babies, they will all die.

Dr. Robin Pierucci: Mm-hmm. That’s what’s gonna happen. Mm-hmm. So when these little ones arrive, or sometimes parents get leaned on to say, why don’t you intentionally have a premature delivery? And our intent is. This euphemism of comfort care. We’ll keep the baby comfortable, we’ll give them meds. But we’re not going to do any medical interventions.

Dr. Robin Pierucci: And you know, once again, there’s a, there’s a really important line to be walked here. There’s a balance of medical excellence that is wed with compassion and love. And we should never abandon one for the other. There’s, and you know, one of the exciting bits of news is the a P, which is definitely left leaning in, most of its.

Dr. Robin Pierucci: What, what it supports. But they just issued a physician statement that said, no longer should babies with something called Trisomy 13 or trisomy 18, which used to be said was lethal. You should not, you cannot ethically withhold treatment from these little ones. If, when these parents say, can we please.

Dr. Robin Pierucci: See what we can do because gosh, here’s a surprise. What we found out is when you intervene for these babies, huh? They live longer now. Mm-hmm. I do not mean to say that they’re fine. These babies often have significant medical needs, but that doesn’t make them less significantly a human being, and they’re not less loved by their families.

Dr. Robin Pierucci: And once again, I am not saying everyone has to do everything in the context of each individual family of your lives, of your finances, of you know, everything, social, economic, spiritual. We need to treat the individual people because every single one of them is a, of, is a person of infinite worth and value.

Dr. Robin Pierucci: There’s no such thing as a worthless human being or maybe who is worth less based on how much they were initially wanted. This is still a fully formed human being. You read from Jeremiah, when we started, that was formed knowingly and lovingly in their mother’s womb, and so the only question is how do we care for each individual?

Dr. Robin Pierucci: It’s part of the problem with doing medicine by law. Law is a terrible way to practice Medicine. Laws are made to govern the masses. Medicine is about tailoring what is best practice to the individual person in front of you. So it’s never an excuse to intentionally, like I say, by intent, actually harm another human being.

Dr. Robin Pierucci: On the other hand, we also need to recognize, okay, I can’t heal everything, so how do I care? How do I absolutely mind meld medical excellence with compassion and love, and that’s the privilege of being a physician. Just being another human being who gets to care for another. And how, what was that? That’s what navigating Fetal Concerns is.

Vicky Cherry: What was the name of that where they can watch this? We’re almost to the break,

Dr. Robin Pierucci: so, ah, so I believe if you go to a’s website, A-A-P-L-O-G, they will have this web this is, it’s still a live YouTube link. That is up and it’s titled Navigating Fetal Concerns. Which by the way, also my website if you would ever want to contact me, fetal concerns all one word fetal concerns.com and you can find me.

Bruce Cherry: Okay? We’re gonna take a break and we’ll be right back. With more, we have Dr. Robin Pierucci and Dr. Haywood Robinson, both pro-life warriors, and they’re sharing some, some really great knowledge and truth with us tonight. More Pro-Life Radio. Coming up on AM nine 50 FM 94.9, the answer.

Vicky Cherry: And welcome back to Pro-Life Radio on Sunday evening. I’m Vicky Cherry, and in the studio with me is my handsome husband, Bruce. Hello. And we have two incredible guests on, and it is, it’s so hard because it’s like, no, we’re coming to a break. I can’t stop them. So we’re kind of running over into our breaks, but we have, Dr.

Vicky Cherry: Robin and I have not said it, Pierucci. Yeah. And we have Dr. Haywood Robinson on with us, and they are both just amazing. And so we were talking about a, a webinar that you can go to and watch a very informative thing. I’m gonna, I’m gonna let Dr. Haywood give us more information,

Dr. Haywood Robinson: right? And again, I had an opportunity to watch this webinar.

Dr. Haywood Robinson: It’s entitled, navigating Fetal Concerns. Supporting families through prenatal diagnoses, and that’s what Dr. Uch has been been talking about. But I’d like to maybe take us maybe in a slightly different direction. Yes, we’ve talked about what we’ve got. We’re going to offer our families and protect them from what happens in that exam room many times if.

Dr. Haywood Robinson: They even find the slightest abnormality, ultrasound, they almost start marketing for an abortion. Mm-hmm. And pressuring these families every single visit, even when the case, the family says, oh, no. We’re not interested in abortion. Uh uh. Just we are just gonna move on.

Vicky Cherry: Dr. Hayward, we had a lady on not too long ago, exact same thing happened to, she has a down syndrome son and she knew he was going to be, and they, every visit made her feel un they bullied.

Vicky Cherry: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Dr. Haywood Robinson: They fully, the families. They belittle them. They belittle their child, their preborn child, and make it a second class citizen. They tell them that it’s not going to be fair to the rest of the family. When we indeed know that’s how families learn to be compassionate and caregiving. That’s the way their children learn that the other live, you’ve got to go on the office.

Dr. Haywood Robinson: With these Abraham Lincoln, Frederick Douglas doctors and I, we’ve got to tell them, we’ve got to set the standard stop intimidating our family, our families. And lying to them. They’ll also tell them these quasi lies and lies like, well, you know, if you take this baby on the term, you’re gonna be at higher risk for living babies that may harm you.

Dr. Haywood Robinson: That’s how they come up with this lie. You know, this is an abortion. To save the mother. There is no such thing as an abortion that saves a mother. You’ve got to get rid of these lies and hold. This what they call organized medicine accountable. And I think the organizations like, APL and a CP, the Christian Life affirming organizations need to come together and fight the lies.

Dr. Haywood Robinson: Everything from the lie that abortionist healthcare and all of that. And be the advocates for these human beings. No longer. Allow them to be treated as second class citizens. And we need to, I know we try to be nice and sometimes I think we are a little too nice, but we need to get into the face of the enemy and tell you, no mas no more of this.

Dr. Haywood Robinson: We’re standing for these babies. They’re just different and, and hold and hold them accountable. But we’ve also, if we can get. The collaboration with the down societies and families who have had special children. Mm-hmm. We can form a coalition and fight this evil and this death curse against this special group of human beings.

Vicky Cherry: Even those that aren’t, you know it, the babies are being slaughtered. So many times they don’t have Down syndrome or anything else.

Dr. Haywood Robinson: Mm-hmm. Absolutely. They, we give them a diagnosis, we show you something, an ultrasound baby comes out 100% normal. Mm-hmm.

Dr. Robin Pierucci: Yeah. But I’ve seen that. But you know what’s so fascinating is.

Dr. Robin Pierucci: I, first of all yeah, a hundred percent. I have sent home babies that they were told their baby would not survive. I won’t even use the phrase lethal diagnosis anymore. It’s if it’s just inaccurate. There are things that are life limiting, mm-hmm. To call someone, it lethal is wrong until we assign them a date of death.

Dr. Robin Pierucci: That’s not right. Mm-hmm. But one of the big things and I’d love to get you Dr. Hayward thought on this, we are trained as physicians to tell people every single thing that can go wrong. And we don’t, we don’t tell them about the wonderful lives. And it’s not that we’re glossing over stuff. I, trust me, I am not gonna gloss over if something is medically complicated, however.

Dr. Robin Pierucci: The best thing is I had a mom who had a baby with Down Syndrome and she came back to the unit and said, you doctors, you told me everything that was gonna go wrong. Not one of you told me how much the same this child was gonna be to all my other children. And she was exactly right and I changed how I spoke about stuff.

Dr. Robin Pierucci: We forget to extol the virtue of a life lived. There really is no such thing as a life that is meaningless or a life that’s not worth living. That’s not true.

Bruce Cherry: I will share that Vicky, and I know we have a few friends that are up in years and they have children and one of the children might have down syndrome, and they’ve always described that child as their blessing or their angel that God bless them with.

Bruce Cherry: And it just brings the whole family together. The whole family loves on that one child. Mm-hmm. And that one child shows them how to love. And I, I don’t think I’ve met anyone that has a down syndrome child that regrets the experience. They, because they look at it as, I’ve never, yeah. As it was a blessing.

Dr. Robin Pierucci: ‘Never met a mother who regretted meeting her child. Mm-hmm. I have met people who called. Even if they were only permitted hours or days with that little one. They call that time sacred. And they can’t imagine if they had missed that window of opportunity. They don’t regret meeting that child for one moment.

Dr. Robin Pierucci: But just, you know, one other thought that I really wanna throw out there, especially in this last segment, we have to be very careful because literally. Half the population I view as the walking wounded, they have suffered either directly or indirectly. There’s just one person removed from someone who’s had an abortion.

Dr. Robin Pierucci: And how do we offer olive branches to them to say, I am sorry for what you’ve been through. And, you know, address really just the wounds that, that the sleeves, I fear that there will be people who will hear this and watch the webinar and go, oh my gosh, I say; might have had an intentional preterm delivery and we just let the baby die.

Dr. Robin Pierucci: We do what we can in the moment and with the information we have and our technology changes, and it doesn’t excuse physicians who continue. To do this, but we have to also wrap our arms around those who have suffered at the hands of this of a, of a culture that just doesn’t always find meaning in our lives and doesn’t see that there’s no such thing as a valuable human being inherently so, so something just to be aware of as we care for each other.

Dr. Robin Pierucci: Hmm.

Dr. Haywood Robinson: And I think also we’ve got to remember that medicine is not a profession. I believe medicine is a ministry of the healing arts, and I believe every physician should think they’re called supernaturally by God. I know that I am. And if you’re called by God, you’re called to protect all of those that are made into his image.

Dr. Haywood Robinson: The Bible clearly tells us. We love because he first loved us. Mm-hmm. So why should we be astonished that the family who gets a special needs child and we watch them in public and we watch all that love and compassion from the siblings to the parents, it’s, and the parents and everyone. And how you see this, this halo a bubble zone of love around this.

Dr. Haywood Robinson: Special child. It’s because God transfuses a special portion of love into that family to be showered upon this special needs child. So he sometimes forget that this is a supernatural ministry that we’re in, but God has blessed. Men and women to also come up with technologies that are supposed to be used for good and not for bad, and to prolong life and to improve the quality of life.

Dr. Haywood Robinson: These are all gifts from God. Amen.

Vicky Cherry: Well, we have about three minutes left, so Dr. Haywood, while you are talking, tell us what we need to know and then give it over to Robin and that will be it for the night.

Dr. Haywood Robinson: Well. I really enjoyed being on this show, this this evening. It’s a blessing to be with such esteemed professionals such as you and particularly my dear friend Dr.

Dr. Haywood Robinson: Pierucci. And we are going to be looking forward to working together more. We’ve just got to support our families more and we’ve got to. Do the best we can with God’s anointing to bring his ministry of medicine. And we’re gonna work through all of these organizations, along a journey of a journey of a lifetime, and which on our website is, is under construction right now.

Dr. Haywood Robinson: And I am enjoying our building construction with that. So I just really enjoyed the segment. Enjoyed meeting you, and we’re hoping that we make an impact on everyone that’s heard this show this evening.

Bruce Cherry: Amen. That is always our prayer. And, and Dr. Pierucci how can we get in touch with you? What’s your website address?

Bruce Cherry: Share that information with us please.

Dr. Robin Pierucci: Sure. So the website, all one word, fetalconcerns.com. And there is actually on the website, there is a button to push if you’re a parent and would like a consultation. By the way, it’s, this is a free service. We, I am not charging to do this. Just absolutely not so free service.

Dr. Robin Pierucci: We take consults from parents. We also have a separate button for any medical professional. Who wants to consult us. And actually, if you don’t fit, neither one of them, I don’t care. Push a button, it will get through to me and I will give you an email or a text back and we’ll figure out a time to talk and see how I can have the privilege of helping.

Dr. Robin Pierucci: Mm-hmm.

Bruce Cherry: Alright, well thank you both for joining us. We greatly appreciate it.

Dr. Haywood Robinson: Just add one other thing. Yes, sir. Leave you with our website for Journey of a Lifetime. It’s a journey of a lifetime.org. It will say if you log on, we are under construction, but hopefully soon we shall have plenty of product there at Journeyofalifetime.org.

Bruce Cherry: Alright, well, Dr. Haywood Robinson. Thank you very much, sir. Dr. Robin Pierucci. Thank you very much ma’am. Thank you both for joining us. Welcome much and thank you so much for being in the fight and doing God’s work. We greatly appreciate it. Been a blessing. Alright, and thank you all for joining us tonight on Pro-Life Radio, and thank you to my lovely and supportive helpmate, my wife, my soulmate.

Bruce Cherry: Thank you for being on this journey with. Or thank you for actually bringing me on this journey with you. So for Pete, our producer in the in the control room and for all out there listening. Thank you. And we will see you again next week on Pro-Life Radio on AM nine 50 FM 94.9, the answer Goodnight night.