Great Session with Pro-life Champion, Christine Harhoff of NotAVictim dot Org
PROLIFE PODCAST 11-2-25
Radio Announcer: [00:00:00] Pro-Life Radio is a prerecorded program paid for by Pro-Life Radio. Preserving the sanctity of life in Florida, A loud voice for the unborn. This is Pro-Life Radio. With your hosts, Vicky and Bruce Cherry
Bruce Cherry: and welcome to Pro-Life Radio on a Sunday night, on a birthday weekend, kicking off the month long celebration.
Bruce Cherry: That is my wife’s birthday. Happy birthday Vic.
Vicky Cherry: Thank you.
Bruce Cherry: Alright. And we’ve got a special guest in the studio with us tonight who flew in from Alaska to be with his mom for her birthday. Bryan Becker, her son, my son, my stepson, and uh, also he designed our website for us Pro-Life Radio. He’s a graphic design artist, so welcome Bryan.
Bruce Cherry: That’s his own business in Alaska. Yeah, and we’ve got a special guest online with us here, Kathleen, or I’m sorry, Christine. Harhoff, Christine is the curator of the website, not a victim. And that’s just one of the websites. And we’ll get to the other website in a bit, but not a victim is the one we’re gonna focus on tonight.
Bruce Cherry: [00:01:00] And that is the, the pro-life, um, website. So, we’ll, we’ll, we’ll talk about that here coming up in a bit. But before we get into all of that, we always start the show with Jeremiah one, five and prayer
Vicky Cherry: before I formed you in the womb. I knew you before you were born. I sanctified you. I ordained you a prophet to the nations
Bruce Cherry: Heavenly Father, we ask you once again to bless us with your Holy Spirit, to bless us with discernment and let us be fruitful in opening eyes, removing the scales from people’s eyes and sharing truth with them, educating them on what truly is.
Bruce Cherry: An evil that we must abolish from our land. Abortion how that it is life. It is a baby from the moment of conception, and that no one has a right to take away something that you have ordained to live. We thank you for the opportunity to share this truth. We thank you for the mission that you’ve put us on, and we ask for your blessing.
Bruce Cherry: We ask for your [00:02:00] blessing upon all who hear this show tonight and upon our guest. And God, we thank you in the name of your precious son, Jesus Christ. Amen. Amen. Alright, so Christine, welcome to the show. Thank you for joining us. Tell us about your website here, not a victim. And, and I, before you do that, I’m, I’m looking at the website and I wanna share with folks if you’re, if you’re gonna go and look at the website, understand that it’s, uh, it’s, it’s a tall, it’s a tall order.
Bruce Cherry: It’s, it’s really putting it out there. For, for pro-lifers. And, uh, some folks will be, they’ll have their feelings hurt. They’ll, they’ll feel convicted by it. And I think that’s what it’s designed to do.
Vicky Cherry: And I think, you know, I know, um, we’ve gotten the contact from John Minner, who is, um, a great friend of the show too, and, and he talks about their and, and Seth Tweeddale.
Vicky Cherry: Mm-hmm. I mean, also there’s a, a movement in the pro-life mm-hmm. That we need to not just show. The baby and that it is a baby and it, um, deserves life. Mm-hmm. But [00:03:00] also what happens to that baby and what the people that are doing it, what their part is. And, and this will maybe cause some bumps in the road for some people.
Vicky Cherry: So, um, Christine, thank you so much,
Vicky Cherry: Christine. Thanks so much
Christine Harhoff: for having me.
Vicky Cherry: We thought we Yeah.
Christine Harhoff: Started in response to. A problem that we were running in into as we were working with legislators and talking to them about actually abolishing abortion legislatively. And the problem that we were running into was something that we were actually seeing in, in all manner of pro-life bills.
Christine Harhoff: And that is exclusion clause that was being put in my pro-life legislators that said, A pregnant woman upon whom an abortion is performed may never be prosecuted. And the idea sounds so, so kind and, and sweet and loving, uh, to abort woman who we all care about. But [00:04:00] we felt like the idea was actually rooted in, in a false narrative that was being passed around, that the mothers are all across the board, the second innocent victim of the abortion.
Christine Harhoff: And I’m sure if you’ve been in pro-life circles, you’ve heard that narrative.
Speaker 5: Mm-hmm. And
Christine Harhoff: it was something that we had to reexamine biblically. Reexamine even through the lens of, of what we had experienced out at the clinic as we had reached out to these women for now, oh boy. 17 years
Speaker 5: of
Christine Harhoff: reaching out to them, both, um, in person and online, and the pre abort support groups.
Christine Harhoff: And when we began to reexamine this issue from the scriptures, we realized that in Matthew it says that murder comes from the heart and we believe abortion is murder, and we believe it’s a sin issue. And that, you know, if we’re gonna reach these girls, we, we’ve got to address their heart. We’ve gotta point them to the savior.
Vicky Cherry: Amen.
Christine Harhoff: Who can set them free from their son and offer forgiveness in Christ Jesus. [00:05:00] But if we’re gonna offer forgiveness in Christ Jesus, there has to be something for which they need to be forgiven. And so we started this, uh, this website to kind of show that we believe this is the sun issue. First and foremost, and, and, and it saying that, we’re not saying that there’s never a true mother victim.
Christine Harhoff: There are. The mothers in China, for example, have had their doors beaten down by armed guards, and they have been, you know, violently assaulted and forced a, a aborted, you know, a against their will while they’re kicking and screaming and running mm-hmm. And trying to hide. Mm-hmm. That is for sure a, a forced abortion.
Christine Harhoff: And, and then we have in America. We have those girls who are trafficked and
Speaker 5: mm-hmm.
Christine Harhoff: Forced to take the pills against their will. Mm-hmm. And those are true mother victims. But out of respect for, for what those girls have gone through, we think we have to be careful suggesting that all the mothers across the board are automatically the second innocent victim of the abortion.[00:06:00]
Christine Harhoff: And the reason that this is so important is because that idea is winding up in our legislation. Where they keep writing an exclusion clauses where the law simply does not apply to the very ones aborting their babies, the mothers. And so that’s why we have this problem of the mothers all just doing it anyway.
Christine Harhoff: You know, we’ve passed a heartbeat act. We’ve passed, um, like we have in Texas, we haven’t even a heart ban ban, but we still have a massive abortion problem because the law does not apply to women because these legislators. They don’t want to enforce the law for what they view to be as innocent victims.
Christine Harhoff: And it’s, it’s right, we don’t punish innocent victims. But the question is, are they, are they really innocent victims or is this a sun issue? And so that’s what we’re reexamining on our site, not a victim. And you know, one of the primary things that we do on that site is we show video footage of our interactions at the clinic.
Christine Harhoff: And we’re not being mean, and we’re not shouting on [00:07:00] bullhorns. Mm-hmm. We’re not provoking them.
Vicky Cherry: What are some of the things you hear, but some of
Christine Harhoff: our, our dancing in, in the clinic parking lot and mock stabbing their bellies and holding up V for victory. And it’s, it’s very, very vile. So much so that the
Speaker 5: evil,
Christine Harhoff: the clinics have been nicknamed by some, as you know, the gates of hell, uh, because of how vile and evil all of this is.
Christine Harhoff: When we go to an abortion clinic to reach out to these women.
Bruce Cherry: You, you know, I was having a conversation with, uh, with Bryan this morning, uh, my stepson Vicky’s son, and, uh, we were having coffee and we’re talking about pro-life issues and how, um, you know, we, when we’re out at the sidewalk in front of the Aries and we’re, we’re talking to people, we learned a long time ago, it’s, it’s not a, you know, it’s not.
Bruce Cherry: Don’t shout at them, you’re murdering your baby. Just because they double down on it and they dig their heels in and they’re like, I know it’s a baby. I’m gonna go in here and kill it and God will forgive me. And so, you know, that’s so we’ve learned a [00:08:00] long time ago, have some compassion for them. And if they reject you then, then yeah, they’re definitely not a victim.
Bruce Cherry: They’re just determined. Now I’ve got one of the pages of your website pulled up here. And it’s, it talks about what it’s like to kill a baby at 24 weeks, which in Florida is illegal, but we know it still happens. I’m sure it still happens here in some dark places. And there’s an, there’s a, uh, a syringe on here that.
Bruce Cherry: As a grown man, I wouldn’t let anybody within a hundred feet of me with that thing. I mean, it’s huge. It looks like it’s, you know, for pulling body parts outta your body through the syringe. It, it’s a huge syringe. And there the site it has at the top of the site. This site contains content that some visitors may find disturbing.
Bruce Cherry: Visitor discretion is advised. So I wanna warn our listeners, because I know a lot of folks are gonna be going to your website right now. Not a victim.org, not a victim.org. You’re gonna go there. And we want you to be prepared for what you might see
Vicky Cherry: and understand. [00:09:00] It’s not that we hate these moms, these, these women.
Vicky Cherry: It’s not about hate. It’s about leading you to light and truth and repentance of sin.
Speaker 5: Mm-hmm.
Vicky Cherry: We don’t hate anybody. Please understand that. Um, not a victim.org doesn’t hate anybody, but we want you to see the truth. The full fledged truth. Mm-hmm. And, and I, you know, not too long ago I watched a video, even Charlie Kirk didn’t understand what’s going on with some of these moms at the abortion clinics.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Vicky Cherry: You know, we, we want to think they’re a victim, but are they?
Bryan Becker: Yeah, it’s, that’s a hard thing, you know? ’cause I think everybody can try to cover up sin or not wanna a, address the sin that they have. And this is one of those situations I look at in or in a way that we want to, we wanna make, we don’t wanna be mean to people because we know this is a, a probably the hardest choice that they’re gonna have to make.[00:10:00]
Vicky Cherry: And why is it a hard choice? Because it’s a baby,
Bryan Becker: right? Well, and if you don’t recognize the sin for the sin, how can you report or repent from the sin mm-hmm. To have true forgiveness? Because if you can’t come to the point of saying, like, I create, you know, I’m responsible for this sin in this world.
Bryan Becker: Mm-hmm. And I need to rectify it, there’s only the one way as to repent that. So if you’re, if everyone else is covering that up and trying to make you feel okay for the decision. That’s one of those things that we get on those slippery slopes in so many different ways, and that’s one of those deals where it may not be what you want to hear, and it’s the same as like the Charlie Clerk video, right?
Bryan Becker: Mm-hmm. Nobody wants to see that. And after you see it, it changes you. Mm-hmm. But it changes you for the right reasons. It makes you realize that this is horrible, this, this can’t continue in this, in this manner. And I, and so websites like this, as hard as it might be to see the video or to hear the thing or, you know, address your own sin.
Bryan Becker: These are the things that truly matter because it changes your heart, it makes you realize how important these things are.
Bruce Cherry: Mm-hmm. Yeah. You know, I, um, [00:11:00] and I don’t know if Bryan knows this, Christine, you’ve never met me, and I, I’m sure you don’t know this, uh, I’ve shared this many time on this show. One of the reasons I am so pro-life is that, um, before I came to know the Lord, I participated in the abortion of two of my own children.
Bruce Cherry: And I’ve asked for forgiveness. I’ve received that forgiveness. And so therefore, I’m in the fight. I’m in the fight until I stop breathing on this, on this plane. Um,
Vicky Cherry: and part of that, Bruce, I, I don’t wanna interrupt, but I wanna say it’s not just repentance.
Speaker 5: Mm-hmm.
Vicky Cherry: You know, you need to, to confess. Mm-hmm.
Vicky Cherry: Which I did. It is repentance. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Repentance. I’m sorry. That’s what I meant. So it’s not just asking for forgiveness, it’s also repenting
Bruce Cherry: mm-hmm.
Vicky Cherry: Of that sin. And that’s what we’re hopefully this wom, these women will see. Well, I
Bruce Cherry: wanted to jump into a point you were making, the moment that we were making that decision to have an abortion.
Bruce Cherry: Mm-hmm. And this was between my first wife and I, uh, second wife and I, I’m sorry. Um. Yes, I’ve been married three times, uh, [00:12:00] between my second wife and I, um, it was, it was a difficult decision because we knew it was a baby. Mm-hmm. We knew it. And we’re running outta time here. We’ve got a break coming, so when we come back, I’ll, I’ll finish sharing that with you.
Bruce Cherry: Um, Pro-Life Radio on a Sunday night, we have Christine Harh, h the curator of the website, not a victim on with us. And in studio we have Bryan Becker, our graphic design artist who design the Pro-Life Radio website. And. My stepson Vicky’s son and my lovely wife, Vicky Cherry, celebrating her birthday weekend with us right here, Pro-Life Radio on AM nine 50 FM 94.9, the answer,
Bruce Cherry: and we’re back on Pro-Life Radio on a Sunday, Sunday night. And as we went to break, I was sharing about, um, the fact that I had actively participated in the abortion of two of my own children, and we’ve got. Christine Harhoff with us, who is the curator of the website, [00:13:00] not a victim. and.org. Dot org, not a victim.org.
Bruce Cherry: Thank you. And my wife, Vicky had made the point that, you know, a lot of people have trouble making the decision to have an abortion. And the reason for that is, and I know firsthand because we knew it was a baby, we were scared. I was a coward. I was, I, I admit it. I was a coward. I wasn’t ready to become a dad.
Bruce Cherry: I was a coward. And, um. I should have, should have fought harder to protect my child.
Vicky Cherry: I had read a book that Randy Alcorn had written. Mm-hmm. And it was about the decision of having an abortion. Mm-hmm. And it’s like if a, if you were, hey, if they said, Hey, you need this organ removed mm-hmm. Because you’re gonna die without this.
Vicky Cherry: Mm-hmm. Not a tough decision. Right. You’re gonna go do it.
Speaker 5: No,
Vicky Cherry: but that’s why it is a tough decision because we know inside it is a baby.
Bruce Cherry: Yeah. And, and it was, it was a tough decision and I didn’t feel any better after it. I mean, I, mm-hmm. I, I felt like I’d done something really [00:14:00] terrible after it happened.
Bruce Cherry: Mm-hmm. So, with that being said, Christine, I, I, I’m curious your, your website, not a victim.org, you must have come across some, someone that, that made you think, okay. Because I, I recognize that. My ex-wife and I were not victims. We weren’t married at the time, but we weren’t victims. Neither one of us was a victim.
Bruce Cherry: Our child was the victim. And then the, the really inexcusable one was then after we had been married for several years and had two sons, uh, she wound up pregnant again and decided that she was not going to keep the child, and I had no say in it. And when I should have fought and said, Hey. That time I kind of felt like a victim.
Bruce Cherry: ’cause I really had no say, but I also felt more like mm-hmm. Again, I felt like an even bigger coward. ’cause I should have put my foot down and said, no, we’re having this kid, but I didn’t. So what, who did you run into or what, [00:15:00] what led you to have this site and, and really call out these women as they’re not victims?
Christine Harhoff: Yeah. Well, it, we started the site somewhat based on 17 years of reaching out to these, uh, women. And just seeing how evil so many of them acted, how they would boast and brag about, you know, I’m murdering my baby and I’m proud of it. Holding up V for victory in the parking lot. But also there was a specific thing that happened here in Texas, and that was about four sessions ago.
Christine Harhoff: We had a bill to abolish abortion and it got a hearing for the first time we had a hearing. And these bills have been filed in something like 20 states. But we finally got our first hearing here in Texas, and hundreds of people came to testify for this bill. We spoke till 3:30 AM they? They started us off with three minute testimonies and cut us down to one minute.
Christine Harhoff: This was a huge, huge deal, and at the end of the committee [00:16:00] hearing from hundreds of people in support of this bill that would abolish abortion and save a bare minimum of 110,000 babies here in Texas. Just between legislative sessions. The chairman announced at the end of that hearing, he said that he could not, and he, he would not pass this bill forward.
Christine Harhoff: And this is a pro-life professing Christian Republican man or a a representative. And he said he would not pass it out of committee because he simply would not support and give energy to a bill that would penalize women. Who would knowingly going forward violate the law? Because in his mind, he viewed them all as, as sweet, innocent victims who had done no wrong and could do no wrong even if they going forward, you know, were to, or to violate this law that said you can’t abort your baby in the state of Texas.
Christine Harhoff: And so that’s kind of how the idea for the [00:17:00] website, uh, came about. We thought we need to challenge this narrative that this really isn’t a sin issue. Some are teaching, but rather just a, a, an issue of victimhood as if they don’t know, you know, it’s a baby or they don’t know it’s killing that baby. And we need to start thinking biblically uh, uh, about abort woman, um, and, and what they’re doing so that we can reach out appropriately, which we believe is with the, the holy law and gospel, and using that word, repent.
Christine Harhoff: Um, which I, I, I so appreciate you guys mentioning here a minute ago on the show. Also so that we can have more effective legislation. Right now we have bills or we have laws all over the country that are banning abortion to some degree or another, but women are still aborting their babies because there’s an exclusion clause that treats them all like innocent victims and says that the law does not apply to them as the mother, and so they’re just ordering the pills online and doing it themselves at home.[00:18:00]
Christine Harhoff: You mentioned the, the 24 week, uh, picture on our site. We’re seeing women up into the fifth and sixth months ordering pills to abort their babies at home. They just order more and more doses of the pills online from, from sites like aid access and whatnot. And so this is a, a, an important matter that we get, uh, right in our thinking about how we’re viewing these women because it comes down to how it affects our legislation, whether or not we can actually abolish abortion and whether or not we’re reaching out to them, you know, appropriately.
Christine Harhoff: At the, at the clinic.
Vicky Cherry: Yeah. I’ve heard people say that they can’t stop abortion because, and, and make it against the law for these women. ’cause then our prisons would be full and this and that. And it’s like Bruce has even said if it had been against the law when it came to them mm-hmm. They wouldn’t have done it because it was against the law.
Bruce Cherry: It been against the law. Yeah. Well, and, and a lot of exactly
Christine Harhoff: Godly laws restrain sin mm-hmm. Is what we say. And [00:19:00] most aborting women are law abiding citizens who would never do it. Mm-hmm. If the law just told them no and had some backbone to it, had some enforcement to that law. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And so that’s what we’re fighting for.
Vicky Cherry: Right.
Bryan Becker: Well, and I, I think the biggest part with that is a lot of times we we’re gonna borrow our moral compass from the law of the land. Mm-hmm. Instead of, you know, from the Bible, right? Mm-hmm. And so as believers, I think it’s on our part. To expose that to people. And this is something that that does, right?
Bryan Becker: It’s, it’s one of those situations where it’s like, Hey, your moral compass could be off, right? Like with Bruce talking about his story earlier, horrible thing happened and it’s that repentance that happens is what needs to change. And I think that that’s the hardest thing that happens in people’s heart is like, they know the wrong, but they don’t want to, they don’t wanna expose that wrong and fill that guilt.
Bryan Becker: And, but the reality is, is that it takes extreme ownership to have change in your life. You have to know that you did something wrong and then make that change. And the great thing is, is there’s grace for [00:20:00] everybody. I mean, Paul is a, is a very good, um, exactly example of somebody that had a skewed compass.
Bryan Becker: Mm-hmm. Based, you know, Pharisee. Mm-hmm. One of these guys that was going after the Christians. And I think. What we all have to understand is like under God’s mercy and grace, that’s, that’s how we’re all saved. That’s how, that’s how this is all gonna become better, but you have to actually be able to recognize the wrongdoing in, in your own actions.
Bryan Becker: So, yeah.
Christine Harhoff: Yeah. We, we fully agree that the law as a teacher, look how quickly the law when, when Roe went down, taught the masses of, of mothers. That it was good and right and morally okay to dismember their babies alive.
Speaker 5: Mm-hmm. Yep.
Christine Harhoff: The law is a teacher, so we believe the quickest way to resurrect the conscience of, of mothers today and to teach them that it’s, it’s wrong to do this to your baby, is to pass a bill that would abolish abortion.
Christine Harhoff: And thankfully, we have these bills. We have these bills filed in, uh, [00:21:00] roughly 20 states right now called Equal Protection Bills that would actually end it, end all legalized abortion. Mm-hmm.
Bruce Cherry: Um, and, and, and we, we live for that day. We live for that day. I, I wanna point something out. As I said, I’m on your website here, the not a victim.org website, and one of the pictures on here is from July 16th, 2016.
Bruce Cherry: It’s the Orlando Women’s Killing Center. As it was called, as Mothers and fathers wait to get in, there’s a line out the door and down the sidewalk for them to get in. Mothers
Vicky Cherry: and fathers,
Bruce Cherry: mothers and fathers waiting for their turn to get in and slaughter their child. The the picture was taken and sent to not a victim.org by the man who this studio is named after the Pro-Life Radio Show comes to you live from the John Barrows studio, and John passed away three years ago in February.
Bruce Cherry: Of pancreatic cancer. But before that, John was ouch at this center every [00:22:00] day,
Vicky Cherry: rain,
Bruce Cherry: rain or shine. The only time he wasn’t out there was when he was basically on his deathbed. Mm-hmm. Um, and, uh, I had the honor of knowing John and when I was, uh, chairman of the Republican Party of Seminole County, uh, making sure that he was presented with an award for what he was doing to protect the unborn and to help.
Bruce Cherry: Save lives and to change lives.
Vicky Cherry: And Rick and Rick Scott, Senator Rick
Bruce Cherry: Scott, US Senator Rick Scott presented him that award. And that was, that was a, uh, that was an incredible moment. And John was just days away from, from passing away, but that was just an incredible moment. But I, I see here that, uh, he has credit on this picture.
Bruce Cherry: Uh, it was sent to not a victim.org, via John Barrows in Orlando, Florida. So, uh, and, and John’s widow. Listens to this show a lot. So I, she’s been on the show. She’s been on the show. We gotta have her on again. Mm-hmm.
Speaker 5: We need to get her back
Bruce Cherry: on. Um, but, um, the website is very powerful [00:23:00] and, uh, I wanna make sure that our, our listeners know visit the website, but just be prepared.
Bruce Cherry: It’s, it’s not, it’s not milk toast. It is, um, it’s, it’s calling folks onto the carpet and if you’re going to. Slaughter your baby. You know, you do have some responsibility there. And one of the things that, Vicky, you, you’ve seen this firsthand. You’ve been to some rallies where they were pro-choice rallies and you were there with, with members of our pro-life team to talk to people and to counsel them and pray with them.
Bruce Cherry: And there were busloads of churchgoers that showed up with pastors that were there for pro-choice. Mm-hmm.
Vicky Cherry: Absolutely. And we know, know,
Bruce Cherry: Pro-Choice is pro murder.
Vicky Cherry: They had a big rally at their Lake Eola. Lake Eola. Mm-hmm. And they even had snipers on the street across from the rally, and they had police officers with bicycles pushing back the pro lifers off the sidewalks and the grass.
Vicky Cherry: It was, it was crazy.
Bruce Cherry: You were there along with BB Ford from the Fiona Jackson Pregnancy Center. Mm-hmm. Yeah, [00:24:00] I remember that. Mm-hmm. And, and I remember I couldn’t be there that day. I dropped you off and came back and when I came back, Vicky was in tears and she was so angry. She was in tears. And she’s like, Bruce, there are pastors there.
Bruce Cherry: Bringing people in to basically support the slaughter of God’s children. And you have to ask yourself, what kind of pastors are these? Mm-hmm. And, and we’ve run into quite a few of those. Hey, we’re up against a break. We’ve got more Pro-Life Radio coming up, and we’d like for you to check out the information we’re gonna share with you here in just a bit on how we keep this show on the air.
Bruce Cherry: Vicky and I. And through the generosity of some donors and a couple of churches like uh, Liberty Church Orlando, we pay for Pro-Life Radio. This is a nonprofit and we’re asking for your help. And the details are coming up next on AM nine 50 FM 94.9, the answer streaming on the answer orlando.com.[00:25:00]
Vicky Cherry: And welcome back to Pro-Life Radio on a Sunday evening. I’m Vicky Cherry, across from you, Matt, handsome husband Bruce.
Bruce Cherry: I pay her to say that all the time, just so you know.
Vicky Cherry: Are you an heirs? And beside me is my son all the way from Alaska. Bryan Becker, he’s a graphic design artist, has his own business up there and he came for my birthday.
Vicky Cherry: Yeah. And online we have a very special guest. We’ve talked a lot about one of her sites, which is
Bruce Cherry: not a victim.org. Not
Vicky Cherry: a victim.org. Mm-hmm. Well, she has another site. Tell us about that one.
Christine Harhoff: Yeah. Our other site is called Things You Say to us.com, and we started that site and response to the things that students at our local state university were telling us.
Christine Harhoff: In the abortion debate as we reached out to them every Tuesday. And so we began to create cards that quoted the students in the top 35 things [00:26:00] they were telling us in in the abortion debate, and started putting our short responses on the back of those cards. And then from there we decided to just go ahead and throw all of our cards up on a website that they could all go to, to kind of see the things their fellow students were saying in the abortion debate, and then our responses to that.
Christine Harhoff: Some of these, these students would tell us that they, they loved the fact that we were addressing the things that they were saying, because some of them were off to, you know, heading to ethics class where they were talking about this, and they had never really heard good abortion apologetics on this particular topic, so they appreciated that.
Christine Harhoff: The other thing though, that we have on the site is up at the top, there’s a link to, I, I believe it’s titled The Equal Protection Debate. That is the thing that legislators are telling us, professing Christian, Republican pro-life legislators as to why they’re not getting behind the bills in, in like 20 states that would actually abolish [00:27:00] abortion.
Christine Harhoff: And so we’re addressing their concerns legislatively as well as, uh, you know, students’ concerns on campus in this whole abortion debate. Mm-hmm.
Vicky Cherry: Well, you haven’t gotten a lot of, um, airtime. Yet we’ve all kind of shared, I guess, but I’d like to hear more about what your thoughts are, you know, what about all these both sites and, and what are some takeaways for our listeners?
Christine Harhoff: You know, when we started in this ministry, we were being challenged by a pastor to be like the Good Samaritan, to not just be passing by our tiniest of neighbors on our way to and from soccer practice and to and from, you know, the church potluck events.
Speaker 5: Hmm.
Christine Harhoff: To take time to love our tiniest of neighbors at, at our local clinics.
Christine Harhoff: And so when we first started out, we went and grabbed our, you know, the, the white flimsy little poster boards and our black marker markers, and we drew these sweet little, um, [00:28:00] you know, things on, on our, uh, signs. Things like, talk to us, we care, or we will adopt your baby. And we were thinking that if they just saw a signage like that, that these mothers would come pouring out.
Christine Harhoff: Of the abortion clinic, you know, choosing life. But what we got in response was a lot of f-bombs and middle fingers. And it was shocking to us. It was shocking to us, uh, of, of how much of a, a sin issue it was that we were witnessing. Uh, there, you know, in 17 years we have never met one mother who didn’t know it was a baby or who didn’t know it was killing that baby.
Vicky Cherry: Wow. I think we need to stop there for just a second. Say that again, Christine. That in 17 years, in 17 years
Christine Harhoff: of reaching out to these women, both in, uh, you know, outside of the abortion clinic, but also in the pre abort support group online, we have never once met somebody who did not know it was a baby.
Vicky Cherry: Wow.
Christine Harhoff: They know it’s a baby and they know it’s [00:29:00] killing that baby and, and, but they just don’t want the baby. That’s the number one reason we hear from, uh, boarding mothers as to why they’re choosing to do this. And so we, we gently and humbly as one center to another, call them to repentance and, and then we wanna equip them to choose life for their babies.
Christine Harhoff: We do baby showers and we, we try to help them to be good parents to their little ones, but all within that context of using God’s law and uh, the gospel pointing them to Christ.
Vicky Cherry: Wow. So not one. That is crazy. ’cause people think, so many people think
Speaker 5: mm-hmm.
Vicky Cherry: That they are victims.
Speaker 5: Mm-hmm.
Vicky Cherry: That they know the, they don’t understand that it’s a baby or they’re forced and, and there are those like you talked about earlier, right?
Vicky Cherry: That do, yeah. Feel that way?
Bruce Cherry: Well, you and I have seen, we’ve seen women outside the mortuaries and they’ll, uh, because we, we, we had a colleague a [00:30:00] while back and she has since stopped coming out to the mortuaries for sidewalk counseling. ’cause she was not counseling. She was, uh, condemning. Yeah. And ridiculing and, you know, don’t kill your baby.
Bruce Cherry: You’re a murderer. You know, and we saw a lady turn around and say to her, I know it’s a baby and I’m gonna go in here and kill it and God will forgive me. That’s exactly what she did. And so just by talking to her in that manner, she dug her heels in and she went inside and she did the deed. You know? And so, yes.
Bruce Cherry: You know, women like that. They’re not victims. Not at all. Hey, I’m, I’m looking here on your website for. Things you say to us.com and for anybody who’s a sidewalk counselor that might be listening to the show, anyone who’s thinking about, uh, being a sidewalk counselor or you just wanna be prepared, uh, to maybe engage your child or your, uh, your, your grandchild or a neighbor, someone that you know is, is pro-choice.
Bruce Cherry: Uh, there’s a, a [00:31:00] page here that has the things that, that people say, like her body, her choice, and the, the comeback for that obviously is the body inside. The mother’s body is not her body. The mother doesn’t have the arms, doesn’t have four arms, four legs, two brains, two hearts. And if the baby’s a boy, she’s not double gendered.
Bruce Cherry: No baby would ever choose to have his or her own body. Poi poisoned, attacked with a vacuum dismembered usually while alive. Mm-hmm. Or forcibly birthed prematurely into a toilet
Bruce Cherry: full of water. And you think about that and that’s, yeah. Yeah. It’s not her body. Mm-hmm. It’s not her body. Right. And, and there’s, and there’s other things on here too, like it’s just a clump of shell, well. Yeah. Well, so are you, you’re a clump of sales. We’re all a clump of sales. Well, even,
Bryan Becker: I think number eight on [00:32:00] that list was, uh, it being a fetus, right?
Bryan Becker: Mm-hmm. And it’s just misdirection. It’s using Latin to make mm-hmm. Make distance you further from it, calling a baby from the truth. Yeah. But then when you read what it means in Latin is on born baby, right? Yeah. So I think it’s one of those things where it’s education, right? Mm-hmm. It’s letting people know, like, Hey, there’s tricks and things that they’re gonna do to distance you to basically unhuman, humanize.
Bryan Becker: Call it a fetus. Mm-hmm. Clump of cells. Mm-hmm. All the things that, hey, there’s, this isn’t really murder. Mm-hmm. Is what we’re trying to get back to on that side. Right. Is there, that’s what they wanna establish. And the reality is, is, is, and it’s, it’s the worst kind, right? Mm-hmm. In that, in hypotheticals.
Bryan Becker: Think of, I would think of it this way, right? If you had an 80-year-old and you had, let’s say a 1-year-old, and no matter what, one of ’em had to die. Mm-hmm. Which one are you gonna pick? More people, if you had to choose, they’re more than likely gonna say, well, it’s gonna not against the 80 year olds listening.
Bryan Becker: Right. Right. But that what they’re saying is they had their whole life. Mm-hmm. They’ve lived a life. Mm-hmm. So [00:33:00] by that standard, we should allow the, the 1-year-old. Mm-hmm. To have a life. Mm-hmm. Well, just think about it like you’re that 1-year-old. Go back to the conception point. That’s what we’re talking about.
Bryan Becker: We’re talking about. Unborn babies that don’t even have a chance to live any part of that life.
Speaker 5: Mm-hmm.
Bryan Becker: And if we keep calling ’em fetuses and we try to distance what they are, being a real baby, that’s, that’s the, the injustice. That’s where the problem in that slippery slope gets on, that we get on. So it, I think this is a great site.
Bryan Becker: I think that it breaks down. Each of those points, like you said, the things that they’re saying to us mm-hmm. In, in a really clear, concise way of an answer where you can get the information and you know that it’s biblically based. So I thank you for that. I, we, that’s a great resource.
Christine Harhoff: Yeah. We learned in our street evangelism, uh, on this issue to have quick responses because people wanna talk back.
Speaker 5: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And
Christine Harhoff: so we learn these little comeback lines that, um, are, are meant to be given gently and with respect. But also to quickly get to [00:34:00] the point
Speaker 5: mm-hmm.
Christine Harhoff: Such as when they say, my body, my choice, you can very quickly say in response, some choices are wrong.
Christine Harhoff: Mm. Mm-hmm. And that gets to the heart of, of the issue that abortion is a moral evil and that we must turn from it.
Bruce Cherry: And, and Bryan and I were having this conversation, abortion. Because it serves so many purposes and there’s money involved, because big pharma always follow the money, and Planned Parenthood are making a killing off of literally and figuratively.
Bruce Cherry: Um, then it’s convenience for the, the person who doesn’t wanna be pregnant and the dad who doesn’t wanna be a dad, the convenience of it, or because of anger, uh, because the woman might have been a victim of rape or incest and, and the inconvenience of the, the. Criminal, the person, the pedophile, the person perpetrating the incest or the rape.
Bruce Cherry: Uh, it helps hide the evidence of their crime. But also there [00:35:00] is a darker part to this that non-Christians cannot understand. Our Bible teaches us that there is evil in this world, and evil wants the sacrifice of innocent blood, and that’s exactly what abortion is. It’s the sacrifice of innocent blood.
Bruce Cherry: And so that’s, it’s just wrong on so many levels. Hey, we’re, we’re getting to the end of the show. Christine. Thank you so much for what you’re doing with these two websites with, uh, not a victim.org and things you say to us.com folks, write those sites down, check ’em out. Especially if you are a sidewalk counselor or you’re thinking about getting involved and becoming a sidewalk counselor, or you just wanna be better engaged, uh, with.
Bruce Cherry: With folks on the pro-choice side. ’cause as we know, pro-choice is pro-death. There’s no choice there. There, there, we talked earlier about women not being forced to have abortions there. There have been several women, we’ve had women on this show that have told stories about, they were brought in by their mother [00:36:00] when they were a teenager and they weren’t really given any kind of choice whatsoever.
Bruce Cherry: And when they said they wanted to keep their baby, the next thing they knew they had been given a Valium and drugged. And next thing you know, they wake up and they’ve had an abortion. That’s true. That’s happened and it, I believe it still happens to this day.
Vicky Cherry: Oh, I believe so. But there are those, you know, even at the age of a young age, you could make a better different choice.
Vicky Cherry: We’ve had a, our pastor’s wife on, on one of our pastors, and at. Her mother was raped by her uncle at the age of 13, and the police officers, the, uh, school, even her family tried to get her to abort the baby, and she knew that no, she couldn’t take care of that baby at 13. But she knew that other people would love that baby and raise that baby.
Vicky Cherry: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Vicky Cherry: And so she had that baby. And that is our pastor’s wife. Great woman of God,
Bruce Cherry: Cheryl Hadley. Mm-hmm. And we’ve had her on the show several times. Hey, we’ve got [00:37:00] another segment coming up. So stick around and again, more details on how you can help keep Pro-Life Radio on the air. Uh, Christine Harh, thank you so much for joining us.
Bruce Cherry: Can you stick around for a little bit longer? Sure. Alright, we’re talking with Christine Harloff, curator of the website, not a victim, and also the website things you say to us.com. We’ll be right back. More Pro-Life Radio on AM nine 50 FM 94.9, the answer.
Bruce Cherry: And welcome back Pro-Life Radio on a Sunday night birthday Sunday.
Vicky Cherry: Amen. I love birthday.
Bruce Cherry: Yeah. Vicky’s birthday and we’re not gonna say how old she is. That’s that. I, I, I. As a married man, I wanna stay happily married, so I’m just gonna be quiet, but I know she doesn’t look a day over 29.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Bruce Cherry: And, and her 40-year-old son is here with us.
Vicky Cherry: That was not ICE Bruce. And
Bruce Cherry: he’s 42. He’s 42. I’m 43. Sorry. [00:38:00]
Bryan Becker: Sorry. But math ain’t math. Yeah.
Bruce Cherry: Well, uh, we’ve got Bryan Becker in the studio. I would’ve been nine, right? Yeah, yeah. Bryan Becker in the studio with us and Bryan is all the way from Alaska. He is a great, great man, a strong man of faith and um. And he’s, he designed our, our website, pro-life pro dash life radio.com.
Bruce Cherry: So want to thank him. We wanted to have this opportunity to have him on the show and he’s in visiting with his mom for her birthday and just, it’s been great to spend time with him. So we’ve got, uh, Christine Harloff with US Curator and Pro-life, uh, warrior and, uh, strong Woman of Faith in her own right, uh, curator of the websites, not a victim.org.
Bruce Cherry: Then also things you say to us.com, not a victim.org, is not, it’s not for the, uh, the week of stomach, if you will. So check that website out and be aware that you’re, you’re gonna see some things that it’s all truth. Yeah, it’s all truth. There’s no, there’s no fluff there. And it’s all true. And, uh, and it, [00:39:00] it calls women on the carpet to be responsible If you’re gonna have an abortion, you, you, you’ve got a responsibility there.
Bruce Cherry: You’re not an innocent victim in, in many cases. And, uh, and then, uh, things you say to us, it prepares us for the arguments. And it doesn’t have to be an argument. It prepares us for debate with those who are pro-choice. So, uh, I urge you to check out both of those sites and, and save ’em in your favorites.
Bruce Cherry: So, Christine, thank you very much for being with us. Now, you were talking earlier about the equal protection bill. Let’s let’s hear some more about that.
Christine Harhoff: Yeah. As we were reaching out to these women, you know, we’d have a couple choose life every time we went to the clinic and, and would call out to them from the sidewalk, and that was precious.
Christine Harhoff: And we thank the Lord for that. But we realized that we needed the help of the law. To restrain the sin, uh, of the ones that we could not reach. And so my friend Bradley Pierce, the constitutional attorney, started thinking through how [00:40:00] we could file legislation that would actually abolish abortion.
Christine Harhoff: Because currently right now, the mothers are just working around most of our pro-life legislation because of that exclusion clause. Written into nearly every pro-life bill in the country that says that the law is is not enforced for the mother. And so my attorney friend Bradley, started rethinking this issue and he said, you know, why don’t we just take the same laws that protect you and me from being murdered and simply extend that protection to protecting everybody, including the preborn.
Christine Harhoff: So regardless of age or size or location of the victim. Everybody gets protected under this law. And so he started drafting these bills that have been filed and what I believe is around 20 states right now. And, and they do just what we were just talking about. They take the same laws that protect you and me and extend that protection to protecting the pre preborn from the moment of conception.[00:41:00]
Christine Harhoff: And that’s how we believe we can effectively end abortion. And because it holds the woman accountable and it tells them no, and it has enforcement of the law, not because we want to be mean and hateful to women. We’re not trying to see a bunch of women, you know, hauled off to jail. We don’t wanna see a woman thrown in handcuffs.
Christine Harhoff: But because we believe that most aborting women, like we said before, are law abiding citizens. And if the law just told them no with appropriate enforcement, they would never do it in the first place. And so because of that. We believe that the equal protection bills are, are what is good and kind and right to, uh, aborting women and certainly good and kind and right toward their babies.
Vicky Cherry: Amen. You know, um, if we seen somebody beating their child, let’s say 1-year-old child, let’s say six months old. To death, we would step in. Right? So it’s not a just a mind your own [00:42:00] business, you know? ’cause you hear that too. Why don’t you just mind your own business? It’s not your body, it’s not your choice, it’s not your child.
Vicky Cherry: But we as citizens, we as believers, we as just moral human beings mm-hmm. Know that it’s not right. It’s not right to kill a child, whether it’s in the womb or outside the womb,
Bruce Cherry: you know? I was having a, a conversation recently again with, with Bryan ’cause he and I spent a lot of time talking. But we’re talking about how we’ve become an instant gratification society.
Bruce Cherry: We, and we have been for a long time, since the invention of television, the microwave and, and then the smartphone. We, we want everything and we want it now. We don’t wanna be inconvenienced. And so, um, you’ve got a lot of people that don’t want to stand up and speak up because they, they, they don’t wanna be accused of being.
Bruce Cherry: Um, uh, a Nazi, a, a racist, a homophobe, uh, uh, they don’t wanna speak up for the unborn because, oh, well, you know, I believe people should mind their own [00:43:00] business and it’s her body, her choice and those things, and it’s just, we’ve got to get away from that. We have to our, you know, the reason I think that our land is in the trouble it’s in right now is that we’ve, we’ve taken God out of our society.
Bruce Cherry: We’ve taken him out of our churches and schools and, um. Then we, we feel like, okay, well that poor woman, she had to have an abortion. No, she didn’t have to have an abortion. You know, and, and when you’ve got, you’ve got people willing to adopt the child. And, and, and we’ve heard people say this, oh, well, no, I couldn’t, I couldn’t have some stranger raise my child.
Bruce Cherry: What if the child winds up being abused? Well, at least it’s alive. So you’d rather abort your child than have a stranger adopt your child at the possibility. Abortion is the ultimate child abuse. The ultimate. Mm-hmm. And there’s, and on the website things you say to us, it talks about that abortion prevents child abuse and neglect.
Bruce Cherry: That’s the pro-choice side. The truth of it is. On the [00:44:00] pro-life side, abortion doesn’t prevent child abuse and neglect. It ensures it. Mm-hmm.
Vicky Cherry: So more of the Equal Protection Act, Christine. So what will that do? Why is it important and what are you seeing happening? And equal protection? We’re talking about a human life here, so all life matters.
Vicky Cherry: So tell us more about it.
Christine Harhoff: Yeah. We don’t believe that we need creative bill writing. On behalf of the Preborn.
Speaker 5: Mm-hmm.
Christine Harhoff: You know, too many times our pro-life legislation, it tells me as a, as a woman in, in Texas, how, when and where I may kill my child, who I can hire to help, and what age my baby should be at the time of the assault.
Christine Harhoff: And we believe that we, we have to rethink that. Do we really need legislation like that or can we just take the same laws that protect everybody walking around the, uh, you know, the, the United States? Mm-hmm. And extend that protection to protecting the preborn, just, just equal protection across the board without [00:45:00] exception for me as a woman to be able to murder my baby.
Christine Harhoff: And so we believe that this law is, is what would be good, uh, or Forex for, for women all around and, and good for our babies because it would restrain our son. Um, and speaking of these equal protection bills, you can go to the website foundation to abolish abortion. See the states where these bills have been filed, and then call upon your legislators to get behind them to support them.
Christine Harhoff: And that that’s another way that we reach out to, uh, our tiniest of neighbors. How we love our tiniest of neighbors as we are commanded to do, how we rescue them and, and, uh, hold back. Those stumbling to the slaughter as Proverbs encourages us to do is we call upon our legislators to stop the madness in our land.
Christine Harhoff: Uh, and to just tell a woman no. Sometimes it’s good to be told you can’t do something, uh, particularly in the law and uh mm-hmm. So that’s what we’d like to see.
Bruce Cherry: Foundation [00:46:00] to abolish abortion.
Christine Harhoff: Yes. Okay. I’m not sure what the website is. It might be faa.org, but we should probably confirm that I’m,
Bruce Cherry: I’m in the process of doing that right now.
Vicky Cherry: Bryan, do you have anything you wanna add? We only have about three minutes left of our segment here.
Bryan Becker: Well, I guess it’d just be reiterating a lot of the things that have already been said is get active. You know, like she said, if, if we all wanna make the change and, you know, if 10% of us actually stepped up to the plate and wanted to do something, it comes, it also comes back to that thing talking about earlier, 12 disciples.
Bryan Becker: Mm-hmm. Changed the world as we know it for thousands of years. Because what they saw and what they believed in, in the truth. They weren’t gonna, they weren’t gonna let that die out. They were, they were willing to give their life for it and, and it might
Vicky Cherry: be uncomfortable.
Bryan Becker: Mm-hmm. The, the truth is uncomfortable in a lot of cases, especially since we’ve all draped ourselves in some form of sin.
Bryan Becker: Mm-hmm. And like she said earlier, it’s not about pointing the finger at these women [00:47:00] and, and making them feel horrible, but it’s about finding a way. Using the same grace and mercy that God uses on us to have that on them, but to show them truth. You know, if you don’t know the truth, you can’t, like you said earlier, you can’t repent for it and, and make that thing right.
Bryan Becker: You’re, you’re, if you’re covering it and you never, you never come to the realization that you are, you made the wrong choice. The problem is, is then you sit in this. I’m, I’m gonna, I guess it’s like you don’t want to acknowledge the truth because you know how much it’s gonna hurt and what you’re gonna have to change and mm-hmm.
Bryan Becker: I think at this point it’s showing those people God’s love, showing them his mercy and his grace, and that we, that’s the only way that we are saved. You know, we are, we are no different than them. So I think that if we can reiterate those points, make sure that these, the women and the other people around know that this isn’t about accusing somebody of something.
Bryan Becker: It’s simply about showing the truth of the matter and trying to protect that unborn life. We [00:48:00] need to make sure that people understand that that’s a, a life, the same way that you get to live every day and make the choices that you get to make, you are stopping that from happening. And I think once that truth comes out and you can, you have all this evidence that backs it.
Bryan Becker: That’s when I think the heart change happens. So,
Vicky Cherry: Christine, about a minute. Yeah. What do you have?
Christine Harhoff: Well, I would just encourage us from the scriptures to use God’s law to ask the mothers, you know, what do you think about the law of God in the sixth commandment that says, we shall not murder, that it is morally wrong to murder, and then be encouraged to be of the scriptures.
Christine Harhoff: Tell us to rescue those headed for death. Hold back, those stumbling to the slaughter. And in James 1 27 to visit the orphan. Those who don’t have parents to care for them because their parents are abandoning them to a serial killer. And, and to, to reach out to them and to love them as we love ourselves.
Bruce Cherry: Amen. Amen. You know, I’m, I’m glad you, you quoted the [00:49:00] sixth commandment correctly. ’cause a lot of people think it says, do not kill, you know, it says Thou shall not commit murder. And there is a difference. Christine, thank you so much for joining us. Christine Harh, curator of the websites, not a victim.org and things you say to us.com.
Bruce Cherry: And Bryan Becker of Becker Designs son
Vicky Cherry: extraordinaire.
Bruce Cherry: I gave him a little plug there. Becker designed, he designed the website for pro life radio.com. Thank you Bryan and, uh, my stepson Vicky’s son. Very proud to have him here with us and, uh, we’re proud to have you listening and thank you very much.
Bruce Cherry: We’ll be back next week with More Pro-Life Radio on AM nine 50 FM 94.9, the answer. Goodnight. God bless you.
Vicky Cherry: Amen.